Festive special: Data Claus is coming to town

On the first day of Christmas, your producers sent to thee… a bonus episode of Connecting Society 🎁

Mark and Shayda are coming together in person for the very first time to bring you this special festive episode. They answer some burning questions, including: what actually is their favourite statistic? Can we ever agree how to pronounce data? What are some surprising facts about the holiday season? And does Santa use administrative data for his naughty/nice list?
 
Grab a warm drink, settle in, and join us for an episode full of revelations, anecdotes, and behind-the-scenes secrets.

Connecting Society is brought to you by ADR UK (Administrative Data Research UK). Find out more about ADR UK on our website, or follow us on X (formerly Twitter) and LinkedIn. This podcast builds on a pilot series known as DataPod, produced by ADR Scotland.

Transcript

Shayda: Hello and welcome to Connecting Society, a podcast about how everyday data can shape our lives. I'm Shayda Kashef, Senior Public Engagement Manager for Administrative Data Research UK, or ADR UK to me and you.

Mark: And I'm Mark Green, Professor of Health Geography at the University of Liverpool. We are your co-hosts and guides around the wonders of administrative data.

Ho, ho, ho. Yes, today's episode is a bonus festive edition to celebrate the launch of series one and even sneak in a little bit about how administrative data fits into the wonders of the winter holiday season, whatever you are celebrating.

Shayda: And we're live rather than recording from home as usual. Today, we are recording in person in London, and it's the first time Mark and I are actually meeting in real life. So, first impressions?

Mark: All good, all good. Other than the weirdness of doing this in person and having the producers filming us and taking pictures, it's all very different, isn't it?

Shayda: I know, you can't actually see this, but we've got three cameras on us right now. Normally, at this point, we would introduce our guests and try to get to know them a little bit better, but we don't actually have any guests today.

Mark: Yes, that's right. We are going full Jason Derulo today—we are riding solo.

Shayda: I guess that means it's just you and me to celebrate the launch of the first season of Connecting Society.

(glass clinking)

Mark: Yes, we have a little glass—I will say it is non-alcoholic Prosecco, which is a good thing. As we all know, the quality of my jokes is already bad enough, let alone if we introduced alcohol into the equation. What we thought would be fun instead is to ask each other the same questions we ask our guests, partly so you don't think that we're AI-generated robots, and partly to show what floats our boats. 

Okay, I'll go first, Shayda: Is it "day-ta" or "dah-ta"?

Shayda: Definitely "day-ta."

Mark: Best answer you could have given. I think we'd have had to have a bit of a falling out otherwise.

Shayda: Yeah, I know we're probably offending some people here, including one of our producers, but it's definitely "day-ta" for me.
 
Fruit pie or pie chart?

Mark: Come on, it's fruit pie all day long. Pie charts are a terrible way of visualising data, and I don’t know why my students think they’re brilliant. They keep sending me these in their dissertations, and they’re really bad ways of showing differences or ratios. It’s hard to work out what’s going on. And then they start doing 3D versions, and they’re even worse. 

Well, I hope they’re not listening to the podcast; otherwise, I’m gonna get in trouble here. They know it. They know it. I tell them this.

Shayda: I feel like they want to get some bonus points for creativity. 

I’ve got a really important question to ask you—something that I’ve been waiting a long time to ask: What is your favourite statistic?

Mark: Oh, pressure. Now, I had to think long and hard about what my favourite statistic was, and I’ve been thinking about it for a long time because I thought it would come up on one of the podcasts. The one that I’d like to go with is from my first-year lecture on health geography. I think a good statistic tells a story.

So, the current Liverpool manager at the time of recording is Jürgen Klopp, and he has just bought a house in Hale Barns, which is near Altrincham, just outside of Manchester. Life expectancy at birth there is currently 82 years if you’re male, almost 88 years if you’re female. Now, if we compare that to where he works in Anfield, you’re talking about almost nine years fewer life expectancy for males and just over ten years less if you’re female. These are quite shocking, big differences over what is maybe a 40-minute commute. I sometimes wonder whether he thinks about that on his way into work or not.

Shayda: Yeah, it’s crazy how where we live can impact our lives so heavily, including how long we actually live for. That’s a pretty depressing statistic.

Mark: And it gets worse. If you look at something like healthy life expectancy—which is the average number of years a person can expect to live in good health—you’re talking 54 years if you’re male or female in Anfield, versus 71 or 73 years if you’re in Hale Barns. Essentially, people in Hale Barns live almost the same number of years in good health as people in Anfield live for their entire lives, which is just very shocking. And these aren’t even the most extreme geographical inequalities that we can see in the UK.

Shayda: Very shocking indeed. And actually, my favourite statistic also isn’t a super fun one. 

Did you know that a third of people in the UK don’t apply sunscreen to their faces over summer? I know it sounds trivial, but this could also be contributing to their life expectancy, because skin cancer is a real thing. I apply sunscreen on my face all year round. I’ve even got some on right now.

Mark: I like that. You’ve just confirmed that skin cancer is a real thing. That is the top knowledge you get on this podcast.

Shayda: Quality knowledge! 

All right, Mark, here’s another question for you: does admin data get a rest over the holiday season?

Mark: Of course not. I mean, that’s the cool thing about it. It’s always collecting data; it’s always there in the background. You know, it’s got no quibbles about working that shift on Christmas Day. Otherwise, you know, it’d be a bit rubbish if we had a tagline for the podcast being like “everyday data” and actually, it turns out it’s not every day. It’s only 250-odd days of the year, and the rest of the time it’s just having a day off.

Shayda: Well, hopefully, our researchers are having a break over Christmas.

Mark: You want to know some cool things admin data has revealed to us about the festive period?

Shayda: Always.

Mark: Shall we start cheerful? Let’s go with deaths.

Shayda: Wow, Mark, come on.

Mark: I mean, I did my PhD in mortality, and my PhD starts with the line—

Shayda: Hang on, hang on. We said no jargon on this podcast. What’s mortality?

Mark: Mortality is the official word for death.

Shayda: There we go. Sorry.

Mark: That’s all right. Thanks for calling me out. 

Yeah, my PhD started with the line, "Everybody dies." So that’s the sort of morbid nature of me. I get it from my dad. I can’t help myself sometimes. So, all deaths have to be registered officially. That’s an official administrative data source. According to the state, you are not dead until it’s been submitted on a form and appears on an Excel spreadsheet somewhere. What do you think happens during Christmas Day?

Shayda: Well, you said administrative data is collected all year round, so I’d like to think that the deaths keep on getting recorded. Although I do also want to think that people get a day off, so I don’t really know.

Mark: It’s a good guess. Yeah, so the deaths still happen, but they don’t get recorded on Christmas Day because there’s no one to record them. Everyone’s off celebrating. And actually, the number of deaths falls quite sharply, so you will see a third fewer deaths on that day. So we’re talking about 5,000 fewer deaths compared to, say, the previous week. But obviously, those deaths are still happening. They just can’t be recorded because it’s a Christmas break. So, one day, Christmas Day, you’ll see fewer deaths, and then the next day, you’ll see an inflated number of deaths—not straight away. You’ll see them appearing over the next week. Obviously, places are closed for Boxing Day.

It’s a bit of a red herring, though, because unfortunately, people are still dying. Winter tends to be a bit of a risky period. You’ve got influenza circulating around; it’s cold. Unfortunately, these are big drivers of deaths at the country level, so it’s more of a reporting effect than a true Christmas effect.

There’s some really interesting research that fits in here that originally came out of the States, but it’s been shown to be the case in other countries as well. We see that people dying of heart-related conditions actually spike over the period. There’s an increase on Christmas Day and an increase on New Year’s Day. This is linked to people maybe partying hard, or they’re just less likely to go to healthcare or seek treatment because they don’t want to spend their Christmas in a hospital.

Shayda: Also, I used to live in the US, and you don't really want to get in the middle of an American person trying to celebrate the festive season, whatever season.

Mark: That is a top tip.

Shayda: You used to live in the US too, right?

Mark: I spent a bit of time there during my PhD. I loved it. I spent some time in Massachusetts, that part of the world.

Shayda: Nice, never been there before.

Mark: Well, that covers the end of life. What about the start of life - births? So what do you think Shayda, do they go up or down on Christmas Day?

Shayda: Well, I usually, when I think about births, I count back nine months. I guess springtime is probably around the time of conception, and that's quite like fun, romantic time. So I would hazard a guess that, yes, they do go up.

Mark: Unfortunately, that's not really what we see.

Shayda: Oh, no!

Mark: So December, the 25th and the 26th have the lowest number of births.

Shayda: But that's probably because the doctors don't want to work.

Mark: That's part of it.

Shayda: Yes, actually, I have a cousin in Dublin, and she was supposed to be born on St Patrick's Day, but the doctor didn't want to work that day, so he delivered her a day early.

Mark: Excellent. I mean, that's all it is, right? It's people aren't there to work. They're not there to deliver. Of course, still, natural births will happen. They're not going to stop that process. But more of the kind of medical ones where they're intervening, inducing births, those get postponed slightly.

Shayda: Okay, that makes sense. But also, for the record, medical professionals do work on Christmas. My sister is a nurse, and she has had to work during the Christmas period before.

Mark: But we see 400 fewer births on average than compared to what we'd expect. That's down 20%, 25% depending on which year. So it's quite a big effect, and you see it on the first of January as well. The funny thing is, you also see a drop on the first of April.

Shayda: I'm willing to bet that's because parents don't want to give birth to their children on April Fool's Day.

Mark: It is absolutely that.

Shayda: Also, if you are born on April 1, it's totally fine. It's just a day.

Mark: One more for you. What do you think's the most popular day to be born on?

Shayda: Oh, I don't know.

Mark: It's the 26th of September.

Shayda: I was born on the eighth of September!

Mark: Oh, very good.

Shayda: Why do you think that is?

Mark: Well, you were kind of spot on earlier when you said...

Shayda: Yes, it's because New Year's Eve. You know, people like to get a little close to one another. It's cold...

Mark: Maybe not just New Year's, but yeah, it's the start of the year. New year, people make big life decisions. So you have most amounts of births in September and October.

Shayda: Wow. Okay, that makes sense. Speaking of Christmas, do you think Santa would use administrative data to plan giving presents to everyone?

Mark: I'd hope so. I mean, what sort of operation is he running if he isn't? Do you think he has access to linked data? I'd hope so.

Shayda: Yeah, well, obviously registers of the names of everyone in the UK and their addresses and their age, and probably, hopefully, their wish list.

Mark: Their wish list. I wonder how he gets hold of that, because when I was a child, I had to write a letter to Santa and I'd give it to my dad, and he said he'd pass it on. And I have no idea how he did. I think one year we actually put it in the post box, even though it had no stamp on it, my mum used to put them up at the chimney, and the idea was that you would go up the chimney and somehow reach Santa. So I'm hoping he's got some sort of computer-based database. There must be a better system for that. 

Do you think Santa has a naughty or nice algorithm?

Shayda: Well, I used to be a bit of a naughty kid, so if he does have one, I hope he's done some public engagement with children on how to develop the algorithm absolutely, and as we've seen in the podcast series, that's really important for getting impactful research.

Mark: And thinking about ADR UK, what if we wanted to make that data available for research? So, for example, say the Bureau of Fantastical Creatures, they want to get hold of this as part of their analysis for whatever program of work they do. You know, we need to get our friends in the data centres, I guess, to make sure it's all non-identifiable. What do you think?

Shayda: Yeah, they need to remove things like names and addresses to make sure that it can’t be linked back to individuals. 

And then we can link that data to anonymous Easter Bunny data or Tooth Fairy data to see whether the amount of sweets eaten relates to the amount of tooth decay! 

Mark: Oh, I can see a really good study here linking that to people who are being hospitalised for dental treatment or dental records. It writes itself. This is an idea.

Shayda: There you go. And I can't believe we're finally recording in person. To our listeners, believe it or not, a lot of work goes into recording these things. 

Mark, why don't you tell our listeners about some of the hijinks that we got up to?

Mark: Oh, now our listeners will probably think that we record these episodes in state-of-the-art recording studios, but we don't actually. It's a bit of a shocking revelation, isn’t it? On the first episode, Shayda, you had an interesting high-tech way of creating a sound booth to record, right?

Shayda: Well, that's a really kind way to put it. So I listened to a lot of podcasts. And I was listening to a lot of podcasts over lockdown, and they were all recording under blankets. They were like, get into a wardrobe and climb under the blanket. It's really good for sound and all that stuff. So yeah, I got a little carried away with our first episode, and I recorded under a blanket for it, and I was kind of expecting all of you guys to be under blankets. Yeah, I was the only one, but never mind. It was fun, but it was too hot.

Mark: I think the other thing we can reveal is that we both had to interview for this role. Yeah. I mean, believe it or not, there was a rigorous shortlisting process that brought you your co-hosts today.

Shayda: How did you find it?

Mark: I applied because I thought this would be a great way to fulfill my ambassador role. So I am an ADR UK ambassador, which means I’m supposed to be promoting admin data to the world. So I thought it’d be a great way of doing that. 

I didn’t think I’d get it. And then I got an email saying that they’d like to have a chat with me about the role. Could I do it, and it would be the first day I come back off holiday. And I thought, "oh, it’s just a friendly chat. That’s fine. I can do that."

And then I remember going on holiday, having a week off, coming back, and the first day I came into work, I saw this email saying it was going to be an interview. It was a mock podcast that we’d have to do. They said I didn’t need to prepare anything, but it’d be fine. And I just panicked because I got in, I had a bazillion emails to answer, but the most important thing was preparing for this mock interview.

Well, I wanted to prepare some bad jokes and have like, a persona, and I feel like if I’d had a week at it, I could have really, really done my best. And so I was like, "I don’t know what to do. I don’t know what to do."

So I sort of sat round and thought about it, and then I showed up, and there were the three producers. There was Chris, Ellie, and Laura. They role-played some characters. All I can remember, really, is producer Laura put on this absolutely brilliant, grumpy impression of a public member who was kind of skeptical about admin data. It was very much an Oscar-winning performance. I think it was tough. I wasn’t expecting all of that.

Shayda: Well, I’m glad you made it through, because I feel like we are a pretty good duo.

Mark: Yes.

Shayda: I had a lot of fun with it, but it was strange being interviewed by people I work with, so I definitely get that.

So we’re wrapping up now. We normally end with a segment on what’s the point of all of this. And for many of us, the winter holidays aren’t just an excuse to get the latest Xbox game or, in my case, skincare serum. It’s time to spend with family and friends, and we’re spending this podcast with the Connecting Society family.

Mark: Yes, and this podcast is more than just the two of us. We have three wonderful producers, and this podcast just wouldn’t be possible without them both in organiSing, getting the guests to arrive, promoting the podcast, editing it, taking out all my terrible jokes. And you know, just having to sit through listening to us on end, talking.

I mean, we will tell you that a helpline number will be shared with the producers at the end of this series, just in case they need it.

But with that in mind, we’ve got them a little surprise today. So I’ve got everyone a little thank you gift: little Lindt bears. I nearly gave it away when you asked me if I went in a Lindt shop.

Producers: Oh my gosh!

Mark: So there’s one for you each.

Producers: Aww, thank you!

Shayda: Thank you so much.

Well, that’s everything from today’s episode. Thank you for listening, and we wish you a joyful winter break.

Mark:
Until next time, stay curious about how your everyday data might shape society.